Jennifer Tribe, host On the show today, Jay Clouse, host of the popular Creative Elements podcast. We talk about how he built the show to a million downloads in 18 months , the role social media has played in his growth, and the other content he has built up or layered on around the show to develop both his audience and his income. Hey, Jay. Welcome to Supercasters.
Jay Clouse, guest: Hey Jennifer, so glad to be here. Thanks for having me on the show. Let's have some fun.
Jennifer: Yeah. Now you sit at the head of what I can only call a mini media empire. I want to focus on your podcast obviously, for much of the show. But I think it would be really instructive for our audience to get the context of your podcast and where it sits among all these other media properties and how they work together or don't to support the podcast, how you built these things out over time, how you were thinking about the through line of the business and lessons learned along the way.
Starting a mini media empire
Jennifer: I'm going to start with a thumbnail sketch of your media empire. And you can jump in if you have things to add or correct.
Jay: Sounds great.
Jennifer: So we've got the Creative Elements podcast. It's a podcast for creators talking about how they can make a living from their creativity. Launched in March 2020 and now, after about 18 months or so, you've got almost a million downloads. And you've got a free newsletter called The Creative Companion, goes out weekly to over 7500 subscribers. You've got a paid newsletter that goes out once a month, it's called the Secret Newsletter, it's $5 a month. You've got a blog on jayclouse dot com, publishes about once a week. You've got a handful of courses and workshops, including a LinkedIn Learning course on freelancing for creatives. You've got Freelancing School and then you've also got a second podcast called Upside, focused on Silicon Valley startups. And that one actually predates Creative Elements. Did I miss anything?
Jay : I think you covered most of it. I have this little side project called Tweet100, which is just a free 100-day challenge to help people publish more on Twitter. But yeah, you you hit the highlights. There's a lot of elements to the media company that I'm kind of building or hodge-podging together is probably the better way to describe the way that it's been built.
Jennifer: Yeah, and that is an incredible amount of content that you are producing every week. So let's let's look at how this grew. Take us back. The Creative Elements podcast launched in March 2020. Take us back to the beginning of 2020, or maybe even late 2019. What were you doing then, and how did Creative Elements come into play?
Jay: I think I started talking about Creative Elements or the idea for a new podcast in, I want to say, May of 2019 or maybe even a little bit earlier, because you're right, I had another show called Upside and I was focused on startups that are actually not based in Silicon Valley — it's the inverse of that. But I really loved podcasting as a medium. But startups and investing wasn't exactly connected to where my overall media business was going because I really wanted to talk to artists and creatives, aspiring creators, that class of people. And I didn't feel like Upside was really a vehicle for doing that.
Jay: And I thought, if I'm going to invest all this time and energy into audio because I love doing it, it should be serving my main business too. And that became kind of like a design constraint to say, OK, what is the show that I want to make that serves that audience, that would be fun for me to do for a period of years? Because I think you have to really commit to doing a podcast over a period of years for it to find its footing. And I just kind of sat with it for a while. I realized that I had built up a lot of good relationships with creators, but had no real reason to collaborate with them yet. And I thought, I could talk to them. They would definitely just like, get on a microphone and talk to me about this, and it kind of evolved that way. One of the big other design constraints that I had was I wanted to partner with a network or a group to launch the show because I thought that would help grow initially. And that proved to be true.
Jennifer: I do want to talk about the networks but let's hold that thought for a minute and let's go back — you said Creative Elements was the direction that you wanted to take your business. So what did that business look like at that time? Did you have a newsletter, did you have a blog? What existed?
Jay: At the time, I was basically facilitating mastermind groups. I had a business called Unreal Collective where I would do this cohort-based approach. Three times a year, I would run a 12-week program where I would work with 15 to 20 business owners to help them grow their businesses. It was really a mastermind product. And I thought when I started that business in 2017 that I would be working with startup founders. Again, kind of going back to Upside and my history was in startups and in product development. But over time, what happened was my clients became other client-based businesses. There was a lot of freelancers, people who were really, really skilled creatives but didn't have real business experience that needed that help. And as I was seeing my business evolve in that direction away from startups and towards artists. I thought, OK, like I need to adapt the whole thing. So the core of the business was this mastermind program. But I was also writing weekly at the time and I was beginning to develop courses around freelancing in particular. And that's when freelancing school kind of started.
Jennifer: Was Creative Elements conceived as a way to sort of market and build that core business? Or did you think of it from the start as a piece in and of itself?
Jay: No, I always thought of it as its own vehicle to build a company on the back of, honestly. It wasn't like a component of the other business. I wanted that to be the business. Because I never really wanted to stay on the time for money hamster wheel. And it was something I was talking to a lot of freelancers about, too, and I was just like seeing... I think freelancers fall into three camps. One is, I'm doing this temporarily to figure out what I want to do next. The other is I'm doing this as an economic engine to build a more leveraged business. And the third is I want to scale up into an agency. And I was definitely in the camp of I'm using this as an economic engine to afford the time and space to build a more resilient business. And the podcast was a piece of that.
Using a network to boost growth
Jennifer: Knowing that you wanted to build it into this thriving engine, you mentioned that you decided to go with the network right from the beginning. Tell us more about that decision.
Jay: Well, with Upside, we always struggled with growth and we were like, what do we got to do about this? I met a guy named Michael Sacca, who had a podcast called Rocketship dot FM, which was doing pretty well. And I talked to him. I was like, How did you do this? And he said, Well, I work with this network. They've been really, really helpful. They help me produce the show. They help me market the show. They help me find sponsorship. And I thought, that's really great. So I got an introduction from him to Jeff Umbro at the Podglomerate, and I talked to him about what would it take to bring Upside onto your network? And he was pretty frank. Jeff's a real straight shooter. One of my favorite people. He was just like, You know, it doesn't make a lot of sense for us to partner with a show that's already in flight unless they're already generating significant downloads. He said it makes more sense for us to take a chance on a show in the development stage so we can help with the launch of the show.
Jay: And so I just filed that away. We probably had that conversation March of 2018. And so when it came back around to, OK, I want to start a new show, my thought process was how can I position this in a way that Jeff and the Podglomerate would be interested in partnering with it early? And so I did a lot of legwork before I even came back to Jeff in coming up with a concept, having an interview. I had custom music made. I had artwork made. I think I even made a prototype of the show before I came to Jeff and said I got something for you I want to show you. So, yeah, that was a part of the strategy the whole way. And if he wouldn't have partnered with me on it, I probably would have looked for other networks before deciding to move forward or not, just because I was starting from something small. I had probably maybe a thousand email subscribers, a couple thousand followers on social media. It's just hard to spin up a podcast.
Jennifer: So you would say that your relationship with the network was really key to your success over the 18 months or so that you've been around. What are some of the things that they have done that have made a difference in your growth?
Jay: What they did a really good job of, was working with different media outlets and different podcast players to get them excited about the launch of the show. They secured some placements in digital publications, online publications and even a featured placement in Stitcher, I believe, was the first one that we were in. So when we launched, it was in front of people. It was new and exciting, and it got some subscribers right away. And that just creates this engine of social proof and momentum that was really, really helpful. It's not something that other people can't do. It's just it takes time, and a lot of people will launch their show and they'll think, OK, how do I grow it now? And then they'll start that process. But there is a lot of magic around the launch of the show because that's a marketable event and it gives people a reason to talk about it. And the earlier you start that process before you actually start publishing, I think the better.
Jennifer: What do they get from it? What is their cut or the arrangement with them?
Jay: With Podglomerate, I'll share as much as I can, which is it's a revenue share and they handle pretty much all of the sponsor outreach and planning and inventory management, and they take a cut of the overall revenue of the show.
Jennifer: So from the beginning then you both were interested in monetizing the show.
Jay: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. It was very much not meant to be a client acquisition channel. It was meant to be like an audience building. I want this to stand on its own. I want this to generate revenue sort of project.
Jennifer: Advertising and sponsors were the logical place to start. Are there other revenue streams that Creative Elements has at this point?
Jay: I have a buy me a coffee link in the show notes, where people can provide patronage and support in that way. I also have my own digital products. So in the beginning when we didn't have a ton of sponsors, I would just run short little ads to my own digital products that they could buy from. Didn't have a huge impact. Advertising and sponsorship is easily probably 95, 98 percent of revenue.
Jennifer: A lot of podcasters, they struggle with having time to do all the things. So as you mentioned, having a company that's working with you to do those things is great. Are they doing editing? What are all of the things... You mentioned a few.
Jay: No, they really focus on sponsorship management at this point in time. They will sometimes leverage their relationships to help me land guests. If there's some guest that I want, I'll reach out to them and say, Hey, I really want to talk to this person. I have no preexisting relationship before I send a cold email, do you guys have any connection there? They're also helping me identify opportunities for buying ads on other podcasts or doing cross promos across their network, across other shows. And that's been a huge benefit, too, of being on a network is being able to cross-promote with other shows. The Podglomerate only has a couple of other business shows, so it hasn't been a huge impact from the cross promo side for my show in particular, just because there aren't that many other outlets to cross promote it on with an audience that makes sense for it. So they've been helping me identify other shows in the industry that I can reach out to and do cross promos on whether they're in-kind or paid or doing a guest swap, things like that.
How the pieces fit together
Jennifer: Now let's talk about how some of these other properties got layered on. At this point, you have a couple of newsletters and a blog. When did those come in?
Jay: The blog and the newsletter were actually first. I started in startups like I said and I was an operator, and I had this mindset that I was not creative myself. I was like, I'm really good at making things happen. If someone comes to me with an idea, I can make that idea happen. That was this this empowering but also limiting belief that I had. I started working with a creative coach in January of 2017 and he helped me identify this limiting belief. I thought, OK, if I need to prove to myself that I am creative, how can I do that? And so I made an agreement with myself to write and publish something every day for a year. And I knew that I would force myself to do that if I had public accountability.
Jay: So I created an email list. So I started in 2017. I basically write the email, I publish it to my blog, and I've been doing that every week for, you know, five years. So that was really first. It was that, it was the consulting. Once I started working with LinkedIn Learning and building coursework there, I had some confidence that I could create my own courses. So I created the Freelancing School courses. Freelancing School itself was actually meant to be a one page like sales page for the courses, but over time I realized there was a lot more there there. I started fleshing it out into a more full fledged platform of courses and community and free articles. And then Creative Elements came along. I think we started Upside in May of 2018, I want to say. Yeah May of 2018, so I probably talked with Jeff in late 2018. But yes, it's been this slow pile on. Tweet 100 came like three months ago. This Frankenstein media business has all kinds of different streams of income that all add up to a significant living for me, which is great. But it's been one piece at a time.
Jennifer: If you were going to go back and do things differently or not launch specific things, is there anything that you would change?
Jay: That's a really great question. I think what I would do differently is I would be more focused earlier in my writing in what I shared on social media, I probably would have taken Twitter more seriously sooner. Because if you want to build an audience quickly, the best way to do it is to be really specific, I think, and to basically use that as a beachhead into some sort of audience. So it's easier to find you. There needs to be a reason for people to pay attention to you specifically. And if you have all kinds of offerings and all kinds of interests, it's hard for people to understand you and to think of you as the source for any one viewpoint or point of view or perspective. So I would have been more focused sooner and I would have taken Twitter more seriously as a platform.
Jay: But other than that I think the fundamentals are pretty good. Starting with a service based business that was fairly leveraged because there's a mastermind program, I could basically scale an hourly rate across five people, you know, because I was talking to five people per hour, which gave me a lot of time and space to explore other parts of my business. When the program was in full flight, I was probably spending 15 to 20 hours a week on it. And that was my full time income, which gave me a lot of time to write, to start the podcast, to create courses. So those fundamentals, I think, were really good, but I probably could have been more strategic and focused.
Jennifer: Looking at the all of the properties as a group, to what extent do you think their existence is integral to the success of the Creative Elements podcast, and what I'm trying to get out here is a podcaster who's listening to this interview might think, OK, I've got a podcast now and I really want to grow it the way Jay has grown Creative Elements. Do I need to add a newsletter and a course and a this and a that to reach that level of success?
Jay: I don't think so. I mean, the best way to grow an audio show is to find other audio listeners, and you're probably best working with other podcasters to do that. Or you're better off figuring out what is a good way for me to layer on a video component on this to put on YouTube so that I get organic traffic that points to my show? That's probably a better source, because it's not easy to even move people from email to podcasting. Every week that I send an email, I send two emails per week that has information about the show and a button to listen to the show and some people click it. But it's not a huge number. Every week, I'm sure more people finally say, you know what, I'm going to listen to this for the first time. So it's as good layering on because I'm already doing it. But if you want to grow the show, I don't think it's other products. I think it's relationships and figuring out how to collaborate with other people who are operating in an audio or video medium.
Using social media to grow the audience
Jennifer: Let's talk a little bit about social. You've mentioned Twitter a couple of times. Is that where you focus your social energies? Do you have other social accounts that you use to funnel to the podcast?
Jay: Yeah, Twitter has definitely been the historic focus. I have about 12,000 followers there, which is better than it used to be, and it's better than my Instagram. It's about four times the size of my Instagram following. But I just ran a listener survey to the listeners of Creative Elements, and Instagram actually edged out Twitter in terms of where people say they spend most of their time, which makes sense for a creative audience because a lot of them are visual creatives, and Instagram is a very visual medium. So I've resolved to put more effort into that. I just created a dedicated creative Creative Elements Instagram page, which is a painful, hard thing to do because you're literally starting at zero.
Jay: And again, when people think of Creative Elements or interact with any part of it, I want them to have a sense of like, this is so legitimate. How did I not find this before? And in an Instagram account that now has, you know, 89 followers doesn't exactly scream that. So that's something that I'm wrestling with currently. But this is another reason why I think having a bunch of products and services under your umbrella isn't very helpful because my strategy now for next year and even like right now, is to make myself discoverable and lead with Creative Elements in everything that I do. Any bio that I put out there, any social media profile bio I could say, Jay is the creator of Freelancing School. And he also has a podcast called Creative Elements. What I'm realizing is people want to put you in a singular box. And so I'm going to make that box Creative Elements. When people think of me, I want them to think of the show. I want them to find the show, and then I am going to make myself more discoverable with my writing and other mediums that have some organic traffic, knowing that some small amount of them will peel off and find the show.
Jennifer: So your advice to podcasters who want to grow is really to focus, focus message, focus brand focus energies on a small handful of platforms.
Jay: Yeah. And wherever possible, make the show your thing. If the show is secondary in your own focus, why would people dig into that than the first thing you mentioned, if you're like, Hey, I'm the founder of this company, I also have this podcast. The first thing they're going to do is look into the company. They're not going to say Oh, tell me about that podcast. They're going to say, I'm going to look at what this person does, quote unquote full time. So my strategy is if you find me, you find the podcast and then I'm going to make it easier to find me because podcast discovery is so hard. So if I put a lot of time into writing threads on Twitter that I know we're going to get in front of a bunch of people when they click my profile, the first thing they're going to see is host of Creative Elements with a link to the show. That's the strategy.
Building a relationship with your audience
Jennifer: What would you say what are some of the things that you have tried in terms of growth that haven't worked out the way you thought they would?
Jay: Well, I've tried some paid campaigns with podcast players that offer that. And it's been OK. You definitely see that you get more subscribers in those players. But the quality of them is kind of suspect and how long they stick around is kind of suspect, and the cost per subscriber is pretty high. So that didn't work as well as I thought that it would. Just generally having big names on the show I thought would be a bigger impact than it is. But I think we're at a point of saturation where, like most of the people I talk to, they do other interviews. I think I take a very different approach because instead of talking about their work that they're well-known for, I talk about how did you actually build a business as a creator.
Jay: But having a big name doesn't necessarily mean organic growth. I would say probably 50 percent of them share it. But even when they share it, it's pretty passively. And even those passive shares, like a retweet or tweet or something doesn't have much of an impact. I think people listen to shows for their host, ultimately. At least that's why they stick around. They might listen to an episode for a person, but if you're gonna stick around, I think they stick around for you. And so you need to get yourself in front of them somehow, whether it's on another show, whether it's on Twitter or Instagram or wherever you are, people need to build a relationship with you. And the faster you can get non listeners to be interested in you personally, I think the faster your show grows.
Jennifer: How did you build that thinking into how you produce your show and the content for your show?
Jay: Well, when I started, I thought that my intro would be like a Marc Maron style 10 minute just ramble. Let me tell you about me and you'll get to know me. And that was the first version of the show that I sent to Jeff, and he shot it down right away. And he was like, What is this? Maybe someday you will buy the trust to do that. But he's like if you're serious about this, you should script some of this. That was a huge impact, a huge change. And it's not easy. I have probably a five minute intro to every episode of the show, and it's between, you know, 500 to 800 words. It's a full blog post that I script for the intro of these shows, and then I do voiceover throughout it at times, and then I do outro.
Jay: So that's where you're meeting a lot of me is in the intro and the voiceover in the outro. But also, here's the thing about voiceover that people don't think about. I selectively use voiceover when I sound like an idiot. If I ask a guest a question in a way that does not sound very good and does not reflect well on me, the guest is always gracious and they answer it really well, but I can cut my real-time interview question out and script and record a better voiceover that leads into the response, and I sound like a genius. Conversely, if I did ask a question in the interview that sounded really smart, I can leave that in. So you listen through and it sounds like we have a ton of rapport. It sounds like we're connecting really well. And sometimes it's actually super awkward. Of course it is. You don't know this person, but the way that I produce it, it makes me sound well prepared and I want to make a good impression through that. But I also try to smile through the microphone. I'm thinking about that consciously, even as we're talking, and we'll go through a two minute stretch here where I think, man, that was a really low energy couple of minutes. Why don't I add some inflection or smile along the way because that resonates.
Jennifer: Yeah, I think people underestimate the power of editing and the things you can do with it. I mean, they feel like they're not being true to the interview if they take out all of the filler words, but also the stumbles and the so on. But I think to your point, that can give you a really strong show.
Jay: Yeah, the listener doesn't care about being true to the interview. They don't know what true is because they weren't there for the interview. They want to listen to something and enjoy it. So how can you make that to be true? Editing and post-production, you can control that. You shouldn't make edits that change the context, that make the guests sound like they're saying something that they're not. Of course, don't do that. That's really skeezy. But you can certainly clean things up and make them smoother, make them tighter and make it easier to listen to all the way through. I try to make my shows less than an hour long because I think there's a psychological trigger that comes with clicking play on something that's less than an hour versus more than an hour. But I also want people to get through and be like, Dang, it's over already? I wish that was longer.
Always ask for feedback or interaction
Jennifer: What are some other tips? We've mentioned editing, we've mentioned really thinking about helping people get to know you as a host. What are some other tips that you use or advice you received from other people that have really helped you?
Jay: I didn't think about this, but I'm really glad that I did it, and in retrospect, I'm really glad that in every episode of my show ever, before I go to the interview, I give the prompt: I would love to hear your thoughts on this episode. You can tweet at me @jayclouse or find me on Instagram @jayclouse. Let me know what you're thinking. In the beginning, you won't hear anything because nobody's listening, probably. But all those episodes have evergreen value. So even if somebody didn't listen to my episode with Dickie Bush when it happened, they're discovering Tweet 100 now, they see that episode, they listen. It says, I'd love to hear what you think about this episode. They still take that action and tweet. So every one of those episodes is still going to work for me in giving an opportunity for people to make a public share or a public event out of the fact that they're listening. And that helps grow the show. So all along the history of the show, you should have some sort of call to action to interact with you publicly in some way, or at least to follow you on these platforms or subscribe to your email list. That builds up.
Jennifer: You mentioned always having a mechanism for asking people for feedback. A lot of people ask for ratings and reviews. There's great debate about that. Some people say there's no point. Some people say totally worth it. What are your thoughts?
Jay: Yeah, great debate. I've come to believe two things, one being that it's not really used as a mechanism for new and noteworthy on Apple anymore. I don't think that's true, and I don't think that's been true for a long time. It might get the attention of the editorial team if you suddenly rocket up the charts. But what I've seen in terms of helping you move chart position really well is in fact getting ratings and reviews. And they don't say this, but I've seen a direct correlation. I use Chartable to track my charting position. And when I make a push to review the show on Apple Podcasts or leave a new rating, when I see a spike of ratings and reviews, I see my chart position move up immediately. It's undeniable to me. So I really push for that pretty often.
Jay: But the other reason to strive for more reviews is if you're reaching for guests who are difficult to get in touch with, one of the easiest ways for them to form a heuristic of whether this is worth their time or not is look at just the number of reviews your show has. And I'm just consciously trying to push that upwards, because if you get into the hundreds of reviews you stand out over most shows that they get pitched. So I'm a big proponent for pushing for reviews on Apple Podcasts, even if they don't listen on Apple Podcasts. If they're on an iOS device, I say please take a minute to go and rate the show and Apple Podcasts.
Jay: I embed it at the end of every episode. I, in a lot of my intros, if I see a new review that I really like, I'll read that on air with the name of the person who reviewed it and say, If you haven't left a review yet, please do so. That's a little bit of a flywheel. But then, every couple of weeks, I'll go on Instagram and I'll do like a six-video story about why you should rate the show and just be funny and have fun. Sometimes I'll say things like, Hey, if you leave a review on the show, if you listen, take a screenshot of it, send it to me and I'll give you a compliment. I literally run that before and people will send me a screenshot and I'll just compliment them on my story. It's really fun and it's super helpful. Chart position grows. It makes it easier to get new guests. I think it's 100 percent worthwhile.
Jennifer: Maybe we can get some links from you on some of those Instagram posts and so on so that we can share examples with our listeners.
Jay: I wish I could. I do it on my story, though.
Jennifer: Oh, right, right.
Jay: So they've expired, but I'll do it again. Follow me on Instagram @jayclouse, and I'll do it again soon, I promise.
Landing high-profile guests
Jennifer: Okay, cool. And you have had a lot of really high profile people on your show. Seth Godin and James Clear. You know, Pat Flynn, Brian Clark of Copyblogger. How do you get those people?
Jay: It gets a lot easier when you've had others, you know? My first two episodes of the show are with Seth Godin and James Clear, and those weren't the first two interviews I've done, and even before Creative Elements, I had done like 150 interviews on Upside, so I was practiced. I was comfortable. But publishing those as the first episodes was very intentional because it gives the impression if I look at the feed for the first time to say, OK, who is the interview? It's just like, wow! His first episode with Seth Godin, the second episode is James Clear. Wow. I'm shocked at how many plays those episodes get on a weekly basis, even though they're a year and a half old.
Jay: I am shocked that so many people start at episode one, so I'm so glad that they are good episodes. But honestly, you just ask and you be direct and you be respectful. I find that it's very, very important to give them a big window of time that they can schedule. Never say, Do you have time next week? Never. Nobody has time next week. Don't even say the next couple of weeks and say, if it's a big guest that's hard to get, Do you have time in the next couple of months? That's so palatable. Of course, I have 30 minutes in the next couple of months. Give a specific amount of time too. At this point, I'm asking for 60 minutes, but I used to ask for 45.
Jay: I'd say do you have 45 minutes for a remote interview in the next couple of months. That's such a low bar. I don't have to show up anywhere, 45 minutes in the next couple of months. I can find that. But be direct. Be brief. Talk about the show. And then once you get some social proof, share that in the email. Say, like, I've talked to these guests, it's been featured on these players. Here's a link to the Apple podcast link so they can make a good decision. But it's not that hard to get good guests. I find if you write a good email, if you're direct, if you're respectful and as you get some social proof, it's even easier.
Jennifer: How did you manage to land Seth Godin and James Clear with no podcast that you could point to to say here's what it's all about, or here's how many listeners or reviews I have.
Jay: Well, with Seth, he had started the Podcasting Fellowship a year prior, which was his student program to help you start a podcast. We had technically already begun recording for Upside, but I applied and got into that program using Upside. And then we got some publicity for that show. And when we got publicity, I emailed him and said, Thank you for the podcasting fellowship. Because of this Upside exists and because of that, we are fortunate we were featured in Fortune magazine. He used our story as a testimonial on the Podcasting Fellowship page.
Jay: When I launched CreativeElements or when I was building it, I followed up on the same email chain. I was like I'm doing this. I think you'd be a great guest. James, I'm lucky, lives in Columbus, Ohio, where I live, and we had met several times before, so I basically just called in a favor. That's a great start to build from. And I would bet that most people have some favor they can call in, have some way of getting attention, if you really don't have a relationship to any of these people, stand out somehow. Record a video, record a video to directly them, asking them why you want them on the show and what you want to talk about. You have to stand out and show that your show is a little bit different and this one's worth their time in that you're taking it seriously. But it's very doable.
Jennifer: Great advice. Great advice. Thank you so much for joining us today, Jay. It's been really insightful.
Jay [00:46:47] I'm happy to be here. Love Supercast. Love what you guys are doing.
Jennifer: Jay and I are going to continue our conversation now in the private interview room for Supercasters Premium subscribers. In there, we’re going to dig into the specifics of Jay’s Tweet100 program and how you can use it to generate consistent content around your podcast and grow your following.
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